Ep. 77 Church and Politics

In this episode of the Words for Change podcast, we delve into the complex relationship between Christianity and politics, sparked by a powerful quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.: "The church must be reminded that it is not the master or servant of the state." We explore how faith communities can engage with political systems without losing their spiritual mission. The discussion touches on historical perspectives, including the civil rights movement, and modern challenges, such as political endorsements in churches. We also reflect on how the teachings of Jesus, particularly John 18:36, inform our understanding of Christian engagement in politics. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges the way we think about the church's role in shaping societal values.
#FaithAndPolitics #ChristianityAndCulture #ChurchAndState #MLKQuotes #JesusInPolitics #ChristianEthics #PoliticalTheology #WordsForChange

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Chapters

• 0:00 Christianity and Politics
• 19:01 Ethical Engagement

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome to August 20th. Today it is Podcast Tuesday. Thank you once again for tuning in to the Words for Change podcast as we begin discussing Christianity and politics, or religion and culture. This is a very important topic that we're going to cover today, that a quote from Dr Martin Luther King really sets the tone for this episode, and he said this the church must be reminded that it is not the master or servant of the state. Listen to that. The church, rather, is the conscience of the state.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Okay, so before we get started, let's talk about our news. What's happening in the news today for our news segment man? So much going on. The Democratic National Convention has kicked off in Chicago, of all places, and Vice President Kamala Harris has been given the reins by President Joe Biden. He gave an emotional speech last evening talking about how he has given his very, very best to the political scene, to his presidency. He highlighted his accomplishments over the past 50 years in public service, which is quite a long time that he gave America his best, and the DNC clapped for him all night. Among those in attendance was former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, as well as many others. Major protests happened outside and those protests were around the Israel in Hamas situation there. That is still causing a lot of pain and a lot of news. Former Congressman George Santos pled guilty to federal charges, served as a congressman for New York a Republican and he's facing at least two years in prison after pleading guilty to wire fraud and aggregated identity theft charges. He was charged with 23 felony counts on various lies and schemes and apparently he was taking money from donors and using it in ways that he should not. And I think what this does is it leads us further to this understanding that accountability within our political system is becoming more a reality. So we keep our eyes on that there.

Speaker 1: 3:00

In the economy, most Americans are worried about losing their jobs. A new government report offered deep insights to how Americans are feeling about their jobs. 28% of Americans said that they are looking for new jobs in the past four weeks. Unemployment unemployment has reached 4.3%, which is a little increase from the month before, and Several news organizations, like the New York Times, report that economy data is validating how Americans are feeling about their job situation. So that's what's happening in our news. So when we look at what's happening in the world, we focus our attention on what our major quote said in the very beginning from Dr King.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Look at what's happening in the news and, by the way, let me just say this what we're taught is that the church should typically be apolitical, that you have people in congregations who are on all sides of the political aisle, and so we shouldn't necessarily have a hard stance or a hard line about where we stand political. Now, there are certain viewpoints about that. Some people who say no, the church is, should be very much involved in political processes. Ie, if you think about the 1960s, civil rights movement was primarily spearheaded At least the face of the civil rights movement was primarily spearheaded by preachers who had a very different perspective about the church.

Speaker 1: 4:52

Right, but I want to look at our scripture verse, for the day comes from John 8, 36. Jesus was having a conversation with Pilate, and Jesus said to Pilate that my kingdom is not of this world, that if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would be fighting, that I may not be given or delivered over to his persecutors, but my kingdom is not of this world. Now, there's very different interpretations that we can have about that scripture verse. One interpretation we can have is that this is proof that Jesus said we should not participate, or at least his kingdom was not necessarily concerned for this world. But if you look deeper into the actual context of what Jesus was getting at there, he was stating this to a political entity, the governor of that Roman province, pontius Pilate. Jesus was persecuted by a political system that was sort of had fire lit under them from those who hated him and I'm not going to get into like a particular ethnic group because it definitely caused issues today. Some people would say, no, my Bible says that Jesus was being delivered up to the Jews. Some people see that as anti-Semitism. Some people would actually interpret the scripture in many senses as anti-Semitic in so many ways, and that is not my angle here. But simply the fact is this that Jesus' message was to his people. There are many, many different interpretations of what, how Jesus' message intertwined with the political system of his day in which it did.

Speaker 1: 6:53

Jesus spoke truth to power as well. Now, I don't care if you are a conservative theologian or a liberal theologian or if you're saying somewhere in the middle, trying to be balanced, but what we're getting at I want you to understand as our listener is that Jesus here in this text it is. It is no matter where you stand. Jesus here in this text was making an argument to a political system, was making an argument in front of a Roman governor, which was a political move as well, and it had effects on that government. Jesus was making his appeal to these individuals and this was all in a climate by which the Roman government had power and control over that area of Jerusalem. So, even though we could make the argument that there was in this scripture verse from John right, that John is not trying to communicate a political Jesus which I don't think that's what John was trying to do, right but if you understand the gospel of John and the Johannine community, that the Johannine community right is, was renowned for being this separate kind of community.

Speaker 1: 8:24

Biblical authors and biblicists will tell you that the gospel of John, and also 1st and 2nd John the Johannine community is what they call it in the biblical and religious scholarly world was focused on separating themselves from the current climate during their day, sort of as a separate community that will remain faithful to God and Christ or faithful to its understanding of Christ. This is now I'm talking about first and second John, third John, and so they took their cues from, from the gospel of John, as well as others of that day. So here in this segment but with John 18, 36, we hear Jesus says our kingdom should not be in this world. But does that mean we should not be involved? Well, I think there is a different approach here that we should look at. So this leads us to a very important question, and that question is this what and how should Christians engage in politics? What and how should Christians engage in politics?

Speaker 1: 9:43

And I want to start out by saying, or laying the groundwork here, and say that there's something very important that we should understand that Jesus was a revolutionary, that the church should be revolutionary as well, but we should always start with Jesus, our revolutionary attempts. And what I mean by revolutionary it's sort of a word that could be taken out of context. When I say revolutionary, I'm not necessarily talking about protests or sort of like the 1960s viewpoint, but in in. You know, the church has always been involved in in social issues and most Christians of the day don't understand how Christians should view politics. And one author, nt Wright he said this, a New Testament author that I listen to and read quite a bit. He said in the 18th century there were a lot of Christians in political thought, and over the last two to 300 years we sort of have ignored that. But we need to sort of re-engage with that.

Speaker 1: 10:54

And that re-engagement begins with this sort of this kind of political theology. And this political theology says this we are not Christians, are not in the world to link up with a political party believing that that political party is our salvation. Christians should be in charge, sort of like you know the religious right will be proponents of, nor on the left side, depending on where you are. I'm apolitical, not only as a military personnel. I don't support not necessarily either political leaning. I'm more so interested in not riding on the backs of horses and donkeys, but also representing God's kingdom on earth. Now, that can be quite tricky, but what we're getting at is that what God designed the church to be, an example of the new creation. And this is where I personally have an issue, as you may have as well, with how a lot of churches will see that following Christ means being involved with the political party, and that is not New Testament scripture. The church fathers in the first century and before that did not consider that to be the case. Right what Jesus was talking to his disciples about was not being connected with the political party, but to be different, to be a community, a community that looks different and a community that shows the world, amidst all the turmoil, what the church should be and look like, what community, what human community should be and look like, how compassion should resemble itself, how love should be demonstrated, how mercy, how justice in the world should be demonstrated. This is the signs that Jesus gave to Caesar during this time. This was the sign that his disciples demonstrated right. They didn't connect themselves to a political party, not necessarily.

Speaker 1: 13:07

When Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, peter reached for his sword as his captors came to take him. Peter cut off the high priest servant Malchus ear. And what did Jesus say to him in response? My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, then could I not call for a legion of angels to come and aid me? But that's not what my kingdom is all about, that I'm not concerned about the principalities and powers in this human way. Another text Jesus said in Matthew in the world, amongst the Gentiles, there are people who rule over others, but in the kingdom this is not the case.

Speaker 1: 13:56

So this is the problem that I have with my evangelical brothers and sisters that we link ourselves immediately with the religious right, or this is a problem I have on the liberal side that we believe that, hey, we link it ourselves with this sort of justice motif, that we are doing God's work. Now you may fall as my listener. You may fall at either end and there are more arguments that can be made on both sides. But if we're talking about Jesus and we're talking about where we fall and where we should fall, I take the words of Dr King as a quote, that we spoke in the very beginning, that the church is not the master of the state, that the church is called to be the conscience of the state. We are taught to be not leaning necessarily on one political side but to be neutral. Why? Because we have people who are. We serve people on both sides of the aisle and the church should be the same. I remember being a part of a congregation and I myself could be very opinionated, but I had to remain silent on a lot of political issues because we had people who were part of our congregation were on both sides of the political aisle that we were careful not to offend, to not draw people away. So if we reflect upon this kind of political theology, then this provides a clear roadmap of how we should look forward.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Right, that we should not put our hope and faith in political parties. Right, and an awful lot of Christians are doing this. They're getting into the dirty game of politics because it is a dirty game of politics and you know it's a political season right now. And what's problematic is instances like when political candidates go to churches and when they do that and they stand in the pulpit and they say vote for me. Right, which is they may not see that verbally, but their very presence in that pulpit, that the pastor and church leaders allow them to be in that space. Right, is an endorsement. Right, they only come during the year, during the political season, in a presidential election year, when they need votes. Right, this is the dirty game of politics In the church. We have to be very, very careful and I would say to you any church that does that, you should be suspect. Right, because what they're doing is drawing a hard line and saying this is God's political party.

Speaker 1: 16:41

You think about what Jesus said? Right, that my kingdom is not of this world, right. So when we play the dirty game of politics. We're teaching people which side of the aisle they should stand on, when all politicians have one goal what? To get elected. Right, that's their goal.

Speaker 1: 17:02

But this is not what Christians should do. That we shouldn't split the apple this way, so to speak. Right, that the Bible doesn't tell us which side to vote on. Right, jesus said in Matthew Gospel all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. So what does this lead us to think like that? Jesus is the one that has authority, and we should look to the New Testament to give us guidance and look to the Holy Spirit to give us guidance. I'm not saying we have a blind eye. You can see through this episode. We've talked about what's happening in our world today, but, more importantly, god is the final authority, and God is calling us to be a community that demonstrates what justice and truth should look like, what community, what love, what mercy, what grace, what these things should look like, and that's what's most important.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Okay, so the next logical question is this how should you? I want to hear from you, how should you participate in politics? How should you engage in politics? I want you to hear. I want to hear from you, uh, at the top. There's a link at the top of the description where you can send a note or email. It'll go directly to me and I can read it and I can address that. So I would love to. It's called fan mail. It's at the top. So, right here in the description, at the top, you'll see a little link and you can click on it and you can just send me a message. You'll see a little link and you can click on it and you can just send me a message to let me know your thoughts on this topic.

Speaker 1: 19:01

If this topic resonated with you or gave you at least another perspective, I would love to hear from you about this topic. And in closing, I would say this I would say that we in the church must understand that, yes, it is true that the church is not just about going to heaven. Right, the church has something to say, but the angle by which we talk about it should be Jesus first. Jesus should be the base argument by which we address all of these issues, and we need to look to Jesus to be the ethical example of how we engage the world in politics. That's the question I'll leave for you and that we hope to pick up in the next episode. See you next time you.